My parents and I love this place. The inside has a nice old diner feel (with the counter in the middle to top it off), the servers are always super super nice, and all of the food is always delicious. The portions are great too. We always come back here for good breakfast.

Awesome staff, polite, helpful with suggestions when ordering, checks on you, friendly, and they are a "know your customer/s" type of business. You're not just a customer, but also, you are family.

Sore loin steak was cooked perfectly recommend medium rare with some french fries definitely makes Friday better

This is "the place to go" for down-home, country breakfasts. The food is delicious, the coffee is top notch (just coffee, not fancy town lattes), and the wait-staff make you feel like you're a long-standing part of their family, no exaggeration. If you want a light breakfast, a gut stretcher, or a pleasant lunchtime dish, Pancake House is the place to go.

Very pleasant place to eat. The first thing I noticed was how CLEAN the restaurant was. The interior was very old styled with panel walls, but everything was so CLEAN! The fans, the intake vent, and the decor. Our waitress was very delightful, and quick. Being a family of 4, we spent no more than 40 minutes and a big portion of that was the indecisiveness on what to eat. The food was out within 10 minutes. Lastly, the food was good, and filling.

Wow. What can you say about this place? It's been here for 30 years. The gentleman who sees you, he's always funny and happy. He's worked for so long... Means they treat their employees well. Including our waitress. She said she had been there as well for 20 something years. To me that says everything about a business. It was a busy Saturday morning but we were expecting that the weight was only like 20 minutes. Set us at a clean table. The place was clean. They all seem so happy to be working there. The food was great!! I had the two pancakes and they came out hot and the syrup was hot as well. What a treat. My husband had the sliders breakfast style. They were delicious!! Thank you for the amazing service and great food!! We will be back soon.

Great food. Awesome service!!! Red velvet pancakes were sooooo good!

Ate here this morning had a great breakfast.First time here I'll be back. My new place for a great meal.way better than the big named places in Lubbock.

I have to say, I have to thank the bad attitude to Ihop and Denny's greeters. The bad attitude of me telling them it's 9 of us or something else. Anyways, the moment I enter here, there's a welcoming ambient. Excellent service! Seated fast and had the most attentive waitress and owner. I just had to thank the waiter for their attentiveness, and making us feel welcomed. She decided to bring me the owner, which I very much liked. He's a very down to earth kinda man. I recommend it, not only the service is excellent, but the food as well. Thank you for your excellent service and attitude. If we're back in the city, you bet we're eating here again.

Cathy2 is a WONDERFUL server! Everyone in the restaurant was heads-up and hustling but Cathy2 is amazing! Great food and good portion size (not overwhelming, just completely satisfying).

Cozy old fashioned vibe with attentive servers and great ambiance! ☕

A Historic Gem The Pancake House is one of the best places in Lubbock to get an old-fashioned breakfast. The food is amazing as well as the atmosphere. It is definitely the old mom and pop style type restraunt where locals go have breakfast and talk amongst each other.

My sister and I had a late breakfast here today. We found the atmosphere to be pleasant and all of the restaurant staff were friendly, courteous, professional and helpful. We loved all of the positive messages posted as well as the nostalgic photos. The food was great and the portions were large. They offered a full menu of food and the prices were reasonable. I highly recommend the Pancake House, it was yummy and a great place to try while in Lubbock Texas.

Arrived 5 minutes prior to open and they were quick to accept us in and get us some breakfast. Super friendly and knowledgeable on topics to keep the conversation going while knowing when to move on to another table. The food was wonderful (2 eggs over easy with a slice of ham.. hold the hash brown, toast, and/or biscuit). I'd I didn't know better I would assume it was made in my own kitchen. Overall, I don't know why I haven't ate here before.. awesome!

Good food and very friendly host and wait staff. The lady that waited on us was welcoming and kind. The chicken fried chicken was delicious and I also ordered pancakes that were melt in your mouth fabulous. Best decision we made for breakfast. Stop on in they will be happy to serve you.

I love going to dine. The waitresses are a great and very sweet. We enjoy taking anyone to go there and make their to go place. Haven't been there in a while, always nice to eat there. Sweet people, nice atmosphere, good food. Always a delight, people are sweet and very polite. A joy to see them.

This is our go-to breakfast spot anytime we are in Lubbock. Perfect location, right on the way out of town. Huge portions and we love everything we have ever tried there. Service is efficient and friendly. There's a reason this place has been in business for so long. Looking forward to our next trip to the Hub City!

LBK classic diner. Great food, quick & friendly service. Don’t skip the onion rings.

Greeted by freindly staff, seemed like they were genuinely glad to see me. Coffee and water appeared instantaneously, ordered huevos rancheros got tomatoes instead of the paps fritas, bacon as the meat...... No shortage of bacon here 5 pieces were brought it with perfectly cooked eggs, excellent beans and fresh sliced tomatoes, it was all great. Good coffee, good food, happy people.... What more do you want. I'll be back for sure So an update, I came back, so glad I did.... This is the antithesis of hell's kitchen, I walked in sat at the counter, Andrea greeted me with the most beautiful smile, cup of coffee in hand and a pleasant attitude as well, a glass of water and menu appeared instantly. The choices were limited due to covid but when I asked about the huevos rancheros she said coming right up! I got it just the way I like it, bacon (4 slices extra thick) eggs, refried beans, papas fritas, tomato slices, and a pancake.... it was so good there is absolutely no way I could have made this at home for the price they charge.... so the value is phenomenal...the food was cooked perfectly and tasted fantastic. The people are so friendly and kind and not only are the employees happy, but the other customers seemed happy too, which just goes to show that in a good environment joy flourishes. When an employee seems happy at work that means they like coming to work which means the place they work is a good place that treats its employees good and it's customers even better. My kinda place. Shout out to Joni and Tony who were enjoying the food the ambiance, and were great company at the counter. You gotta eat here people, share the love, the joy, and happiness. Come for the great food return for the fellowship of kindness and joy. You will love it I guarantee it.

Fantastic food and service - my favorite breakfast place in Lubbock! There may be a little wait during peak times because it’s a consistently awesome experience. If you’re hungry, try my personal favorite, the Chuck plate. Probably not heart healthy but so, so good.

I've eaten here several times over the last year. It is consistently good and the staff is always friendly. Today I was a little disappointed as they ran out of bacon! This forced me out of my usual and opened the door to a new breakfast love. "The Chuck" is a Chicken Fried Steak omelette served over a biscuit and topped with cream gravy. It is simply breakfast bliss. If you are in Lubbock and looking for a solid breakfast place, you can't go wrong with Pancake House.

Amazing!! Excellent people, great atmosphere, awesome food!

Hi! I haven’t ate here in a long time, but I’ll definitely be coming around again. The atmosphere was so sweet, i was welcomed 3 times by three different servers on my way in. The food and timing were great, even while being a full house. I ended up accidentally leaving my debit card and when I called, they were absolutely amazing about letting me know they had it and everything. 10/10 food, service, and atmosphere. A classic Lubbock gem.

Fantastic little place for breakfast! Loved everything about this place couldn’t recommend it more.

I was in town visiting family and they recommended this long time favorite in town. We certainly were not disappointed!! Great hometown atmosphere, staff so friendly and helpful !! #America !

Very good food and cheap, clean place and great customer service, l absolutely l recommend this place, came and try it and you not disappointed l love everything and the menu.

Highly recommend this place, especially the sweet potato pancakes!! Very nice atmosphere and sweet staff.

Everything delicious! Loved the sweet potato pancakes. Our server, Andrea, was so friendly and efficient. And, thankfully, she wore her mask! Front manager greets you without mask, and at least half the clientel enter without one.

What a great breakfast spot! I was in town for a sport event at Texas Tech and needed a place to eat. I stumbled across this from Google maps and pulled up to a packed parking lot. I walked in and there was a wait, except I was a party of 1 and there was room at the breakfast bar. The people working were nice and welcoming. The people at the bar were the same. Everyone talking to each other like they've known you for years. Food was great,I got the Hungry Boy Breakfast with pancakes. It was extremely hearty, and i had to walk away from the pancakes in the end Definitely recommend this spot for a meal

Y'all , go see Oma! She is the best ! And so is the food . Sweet potato pancake with honey Cinnamon syrup is a MUST !!!

+6

I'd love to go into details about this rare moment of giving any business five stars but this will have to suffice. They never get my order wrong, the good is cooked the way I request (I can be picky about my eggs) and I have never not been greeted with a emphatic welcome and a smile. To top it off, this place encourages its customers with scriptures posted from the outside to the inside. If you're ever feeling drained and need a lifting up, this place would be a really good place to go.

My first visit to Lubbock for a Tech football game and what an awesome start to the day with a breakfast from Pancake House ! Really enjoyed it and very friendly staff - excellent service overall

Best breakfast in Lubbock. This is an institution. Serving up eggs and grits for decades. The women serving up the grub are wonderful.

I have been eating with my parents at the Pancake House for many years. They have ALWAYS had great food and friendly service! It's a down home, family -friendly establishment. It is not a chain restaurant and is a local Lubbock favorite for good reasons!

Great service, delicious food, super cozy atmosphere! Loved it!

I have been going to the Pancake House since the middle 70's, when I have to be in Lubbock early. What great, friendly service and great food!! I bet you can't drink the coffee as fast as they refill your cup!!

Andrea waitress was absolutely fantastic! Very nice little venue local. Very good food clean restrooms, clean restaurant just overall and awesome experience.

The club sandwich is super delicious and every bite with bacon is so good!! Crispy!

This place is amazing with super nice staff and to top it all off the food was GREAT we received our food in a timely manner and we were well taken care of next time me and my wife are in Lubbock this place is definitely on our list of places to stop at!

The Pancake House is a local treasure. I’ve eaten here many times and I’ve never been disappointed. Happy employees, quick service with a smile, and great food! If you find yourself in the Hub City this is a must stop.

+1

Cute restaurant on the outside, a step back in time on the inside. Good food for the money! The waitress and all other associates were very friendly. Will be back!

+5

When yoy are here, you can the family environment, everyone knows everyone, and all are enjoying meals as home cooked meals. That is 5, 5, and extra 5. I ordered breakfast burrito and grits. Simply home cooked meal. Must try: breakfast burrito.

+1

It says a lot about a place when the parking lot is full for breakfast. The western omelette was fantastic! Three eggs, cheese, and veggies. Yum! Hash browns biscuits and sawmill gravy hit the spot. I was so pleased to find that Jesus was the day’s special! The waitress was on top of everything and m coffee never got cold. The restrooms were very clean, as was the rest of the place. I highly recommend this place for breakfast!

Although the interiors are outdated and small town restaurant appeal the food will blow your mind. Don’t judge a book by its cover. The service was excellent and fast. Plenty of seating and not at all crowded as someone else suggested. We were seated immediately and our food was out within 10mins. My eggs were perfectly cooked over-medium, the hash browns were nicely crisp and cooked throughly, the biscuits were freshly made moist on the inside with a nice crunch on the outside, the gravy also from scratch was awesome. My daughter got the kids breakfast and was plenty of food for her. My wife enjoyed her breakfast as well. The reviews are spot on and the servers were sweet and very attentive. Will definitely be back the next time we’re in Lubbock. Oh and BTW the bathroom was superbly remodeled with a modern and updated feel. To the owners, good job thinking about your customers!!! Love this place.

I do recommend it for anyone who likes pancake especially the professional ones. The staff made me feel like home, the place is so warm and lovely. The pancake was amazing with refilable cafe/tea. So recommended

+2

Getting an oil change early in the morning Thursday, so I walked over to the pancake house for breakfast and got seated quickly and ordered my drink and a combination omelette, boy was it good but I forgot to take a picture of my food so I took a picture of my empty plate. Will definitely be back when I’m in the area. 👍🏽👍🏽

+1

This is my breakfast spot when I come home to Lubbock to visit. The Pancake House has NEVER, and I mean NEVER, failed. It always feels like a home cooked meal. The service is first rate. Drea provided excellent, courteous service with a smile. And she kept my coffee cup full. The Breakfast Bowl did the job for me after a tough workout this morning.

BEST BREAKFAST IN YEARS ..Amazing staff and amazing food definitely going back

Our breakfast was amazing and the service was outstanding! I had fresh hot pancakes and bacon and my husband had the breakfast sandwiches. We are new-ish to Lubbock and this was our first time in but will be going back for sure.

T god

Went on a Sunday around 10:30am. Not to busy waited about 10 minutes for a table but thats expected when you eat at a good place! The food was excellent and the staff was awesome. The atmosphere was a little noisy but not for my taste. Reminded me of the small town feel. I will definitely be back again!!

Ms Flores

My mom and I went on a Saturday morning. It was very busy. It did take a while to get drinks and also the food. Our waitress was sweet, but she did go ghost for a while. My mom and I both waited a while for drink refills. Our potatoes came out burnt, but they gladly made us new ones. I will definitely return. Besides those things, everything was good.

Lea Tillman

I used to bring my kids here when they were little back in the 80's. Now 2025 my daughter brought me. I'm visiting from Alabama. The food and coffee are still so good. We ate lunch here too. A different day of course after church. I'm glad to see this place is still here, after all these years. Under new management, but still here and a part of Lubbock History.

kelsi maxwell

Firstly the host Kathy and our waitress Andrea were super friendly, efficient, sweet ladies! The waitress was constantly refilling our coffees and waters! The food was delicious. The skillet and the the chuck omelette were cooked perfectly and tasted great! The atmosphere is that of a southern diner! They had some really cool old signs decorating the walls! The restaurant was very clean and presentable!

+1

Mar Pepin

I came here to eat lunch, but people I went to a conference with went here for breakfasts and recommended it. We were seated immediately. I ordered a cheeseburger with tater tots. The cheeseburger was delicious, and I got it with lettuce on it which was great. The tater tots were the right amount of crispiness, The atmosphere was comfortable, and I could tell from the interactions between the staff and the customers that this is a nice environment to be in. I am not sure who my server was but they were fantastic! Very attentive. They do a $3 discount for college students on Wednesdays, and we happened to visit on a Wednesday. I am not a college student in Texas, but I am one in North Carolina, and they did accept my college ID to get that discount, which I really appreciated. I really liked it here and would definitely come back if I found myself in Lubbock again!

Avery Robinson

The experience at Pancake House creates a homey atmosphere. It truly feels like you’re in a small town in the 1900s where everyone knows everyone. The decor is so charming and warm. Not to mention, the service is PHENOMENAL. Our server Andrea was replaced my every sip of my drink with some more. I got two pancakes because I wasn’t too hungry and they hit just right, they were warm and just like my grandmas. My family members ate until they were absolutely stuffed because it was so good. The grits and chuck ball steak were amazing according to my family. I highly highly recommend stopping by for at least a sweet tea and southern hospitality.

Bobby James

A true Lubbock tradition. I have been coming here since I was a child. Sure the portions have gotten a bit smaller and the prices are higher but it’s the same as I remember throughout the years. I had the bacon omelette with jalapeños and mushrooms added and a side of pancake.

+4

Libby Conn

This was the best breakfast we have had in a while. The price was fair. The wait on parents weekend was a little long, but totally worth it. We will be back for sure.

+3

Tori L

If you’re in the area or even if you’re a local, you have to stop in here! Where do I begin? The service. The servers are so kind and welcoming. They take their time to ask about you, what you like to eat, and they make menu suggestions. Mine suggested both the French toast and the pancake because I didn’t know what I wanted. I recommend the French toast! The food is so good and freshly made. I got the hungry boy plate and YUM! The server saw I had not got around to my pancake and she offered to butter it and warm it up for me. The atmosphere is very old time diner and there are adornments of Jesus everywhere. I’ll definitely be back if I’m in town again.

Jesan Sanchez

Service is amazing and ladies are so happy to help. Definitely give that home feeling. Food is also delicious!

Baby Spice

The friendliest staff!! Very warm from the moment you walk in. I sat alone at the counter, and my server was super helpful finding me a banana when I asked for a side of fruit. The noise level is medium, with charming order shouts coming from the kitchen. Prices are inexpensive for the area. My breakfast sandwich and coffee were about $12 before tip.

+3

Ed Wasson Rebel Intel

Everywhere you go in the county or smaller towns and cities, you'll find a greasy spoon. But, The Pancake House in Lubbock is so much more. Great breakfast cooked just the way you like; great friendly service; and God serving Texas Tech Red Riders community supporters. If you're in Lubbock, this is the place for breakfast.

+2

Shelton Ray

OMG this place is awesome I initially passed this place because it was so crowded and went to Denny across the street where it was empty I got treated so bad at the door I left there because I felt I was being racially discriminated against so I went here and I was warmly greeted by Cathy and she gave me a great seat by the window my waitress was Bella and she was amazing as well also giving warm great service those two are a good combination for a great customer experience! 😁 I ordered the chicken fried chicken it was sooo good and my food was prepared to order very quickly even though they were crowded on a Saturday morning. Wonderful dining experience. I’m a over the road trucker so if I’m ever back in this city I’ll definitely come back here. Also if you’re a trucker like me you gotta park at the Walmart behind the restaurant.

Annie Hanway

Best Omelet I've had in awhile! My daughter loved her pancakes & bacon also! The retro decor adds a funky touch and the staff was so personable. I love to support local business & will come visit again soon. 😉

+8

Great hometown experience. The staff gets to know you quickly and does not let your glass run dry. We really enjoy going there and it is our go to place for our breakfast meetings. They make all kinds of tasty breakfast dishes. No matter what you order, it will be great.

The food was good and the staff was very nice.

The food was good, service was great... Shout out to Andrea, our awesome waitress.... Super Church-y, so if you're into that you'll feel at home.... Felt like it was a little much, but whatever, my food was good and my drink was full!!

The wait was a little long. The food was delicious so the wait was worth it! I liked all the old memorabilia I felt like I was in my uncle's old farm house very comforting. Our waitress was nice but she didn't come around to offer drink refills. The prices are a lot higher than most breakfast restaurants we've ever been on average $14.50 per entree to and they charge an extra fee to the ticket. We spent with tip about $50.00 "for breakfast" a bit of a shocker.

If you adore jesus and trump then you will love this place. Kinda creepy with jesus everywhere, makes me think of all the starving children around the world while I spend money here. Pancakes are not good but the chicken fried steak and eggs are really good but bland, needs pep and sal. Biscuits are very good too and coffee is decent. Great servers, really on top of it. Someone on the phone sounds a cigarette mom, which really ties everything together for a lubbock eatery. I didn't see any baked good displayed but there is a lot going on all over the walls and stuff so maybe I missed it

The food is really good (chicken fajita omelte and red velvet waffle, yes please). Bang for buck is great. Everyone is friendly. Bit over the top with the religious regalia everywhere but my gods don't mind if the food is good.

great place, food was amazing and amazing customer service

I come here for the sweet potato pancakes and that's it. The grits were good today but what keeps me returning are those pancakes. Not at all a fan of the hashbrowns. Small packed spot but worth the wait IMO. Food seems slow to come out at times so pack your patience.

Great step back in time kind of place. The portions were large. The waitress was very friendly. The food was good. One of us had a breakfast burrito and the other had pancakes and scrambled eggs. We skipped lunch as we were still full from breakfast.

Brian “MiMM” T.

They were short staffed but still sis a good job, that red velvet waffle was 🔥 (great), the eggs were ok, could've been better and the hashbrowns were ok too. No wow factor. I would go again for sure. And try something else.

O. Zuniga

First time trying this restaurant,food was good not what I was expecting. All be said it was a lot better than a lot of restaurant's here in Lubbock. I tried the Huevos Ranchero 's , hot sauce could have used more heat but it was alright. All in all it filled me up.

The Gadson

Rustic/nostalgic atmosphere with a simple menu of quality breakfast and lunch plates. Friendly staff that is hardwired for fast service. Our table had The Skillet with perfectly cooked over easy eggs and The Chicken Fried Steak and Eggs. The tender CFS had a crunchy thin crust with HOMEMADE cream gravy. Good prices to complement the overall good experience.

Taby “Paw-some Fun & Adventures” Perez

Has a little bit of a country feel and look. Very friendly and busy! The food took a while come out to our table. Pancakes were good. Onion rings and burger were okay also.

+3

Food was good but they increased all items by .50 cents but didn't post it in the menu, just put a small sign at the register stating that. I just don't think that was the best way to do handle the situation.

Crowded on a Saturday morning with average American breakfast fare. We had a large party and our waitress was very good. The food was okay and the restaurant is showing its age. Probably won't be going back.

The mom-and-pop charm of this restaurant is welcoming and warm! After receiving a friendly greeting from our server, Andrea, we ordered and didn't wait too long before our breakfast arrived. She was an excellent server! I was, however, somewhat disappointed with my plate. The chicken fried steak was very small and the gravy was bland. I was imagining homemade fries, which is something you would expect from a cafe like this. They weren't homemade and really had no flavor at all.My husband enjoyed his plate well enough. But it was nothing to write home about. After reading several reviews about this place I guess it was just a little disappointing that the food was so mediocre. The service and atmosphere was quite pleasant.

Place is closed due to flooding damage. Please update your google listing to reflect that it is closed until further notice. I can't wait to try it once it reopens!

sarah margaret

Leaving this on an anonymous account I made, fake name. Review: I really wanted to enjoy this, the environment was good and they had a pretty good menu selection. However, they took a while to get our food out and when they brought it out they forgot one of my pancakes and bacon. When I asked for both again politely, they brought out the pancake which I appreciated, but they still never brought out my bacon. Unfortunately, the service was poor and our waters didn’t get refilled until the end. As you can see from the picture, my red velvet pancake was bright pink and didn’t taste anything like red velvet, with this sticky white frosting of some sort. On the waffle with the strawberries, the strawberries were mushy and didn’t look fresh. It wasn’t awful, but I’m truly disappointed as I wished this could’ve been a more meaningful experience with my family. Rating a 3 overall, 2 for service, 3 for food and atmosphere.

Well. Old established menu. Nothing new or exciting. Food was fast and delivered as ordered. Utensils felt like camping equipment.

Great breakfast the food is really awesome just wish they have better weekend service on Togo order it's always 20 min or longer wait you can't call it in they don't take call in orders on the weekends I think this would help with a 20 minute or longer wait it would work out on call in orders since the wait is so long on the weekends but fast during the week I m puzzled but other than that I still love the food

Good luck getting in they make you sign yourself up for the wait then ignore you, filthy floors crappy attitudes I know where not to stop when passing thru Lubbock for sure

I was excited to get a waffle with fresh fruit as we’d been traveling and eating junk. The fruit was from a can and was mushy and tasteless. The waffle was a red velvet and had so mush cream cheese icing on it and was sickly sweet. Should have been drizzled but looked like it was splatted on from a spoon. I could only eat half of it and couldn’t stomach any more. I’ve never had canned strawberries on a restaurant waffle before! Service was decent and they were efficient considering how busy they were, but I wouldn’t go back.

I took my son here to try it out we walked in and immediately my son had a weird vibe about the place, we are Hispanic so use your imagination. Anyways I told him it’s just an older place that has been here for years he’s 12. Anyway we sit down and everything seemed ok but we ended up waiting 45 minutes to get our food. The waitress I believe her name was Phoebe, apparently didn’t realize this till 45 minutes later and said the ticket must have gotten lost. So she puts the order back in and we get our food 10 minutes later! We were about to walk out! Anyways when I was paying I’m guessing the owner who is an older lady said maybe I should have let the waitress know! that’s not my job, I thought the kitchen was just backed up. I give it 2 out of 5 stars overall for mediocre food and service, and having to wait when it wasn’t that busy.

The food is disgraceful. For a place called the Pancake house, the pancakes tasted like the frozen ones you microwave. No flavor. When I ordered the buttermilk pancakes, I was expecting something better than I-hop. What I got was less than warm, boxed pancakes. When it comes to the hash browns, they taste like freezer burn. Also, for a $15 chicken tender basket you sure don’t get your money’s worth- better luck at Chicken Express. I don’t understand how this place is 4.5, you have way better luck at Denny’s or I-hop.

Are server came outside after we paid and left to yell at us and all angry and upset saying did I not give you guys good service and I was confused because at first I thought she was saying like someone told her we complained but I was actually because there was no tip on the table or the receipt and she said I did not get a tip we were putting are kids in the car and I was going to go back in and tip her but she came out yelling at us so I did not tip her after I left all my cash in my car so we couldn’t tip her at the time because we had to go back to the car.

Very busy spot. Waited for 1 hour - everyone was told 30 - 40 minutes. Finally asked about prolonged wait and was told that since I was a table of "6", we had to wait till an exact 6 top was available and he'd get to it when he could. Turns out my name had been passed by about 15 other parties. Finally after having a family of 5 called in front of us and get seated in half the time as us we just left. All extremely strange unless there was some other prejudice. Not of white descent.

Shawn Pettus

Staff was unfriendly, mostly locals go here and they were served better than us. Didn't get asked for a refill while others did. Seemed liked they don't like ppl that aren't from the area. Food wasn't that bad but have had better sense where.